One thing that sucked about the last DemoCamp…
This past monday night, we had our first DemoCamp in a while and I was great to see lots of new people signing up to do demos. As I’m sure most of you know DemoCamp is a place where people come to show what they are working on before their apps are ready for public consumption. The idea is that this forum is a place for positive feedback and suggestions on how we can all improve our apps.
What pissed me off about Monday night was that someone actually stood up and asked Treena Grevatt from betidings.com "why would someone use choose your service when it looks like shit". Can someone please explain to me what can be gained by saying something so insulting? Of course the app is not polished yet, its still in development. Of course they could use help from a professional designer, so could we all. As far as I’m concerned this type of comment, no matter how "well meaning" has no place at DemoCamp and goes against the whole spirit of the event.
To top it off, this was Treena’s first DemoCamp and she specifically mentioned at the start that she was a little nervous – so this type of comment helps how? From what I heard she took it all in stride but how could you not feel least a little embarrassed at some level when someone says that to you. What also sucks is that there are likely people in the crowd who probably won’t demo in the future because they don’t want to take this kind of public criticism.
Now I’m not sure who this person was since I wasn’t in the room at the time but I spoke to some people who were and many felt that this was just rude. In any case, if you where there and you think I got this all wrong please let me know in the comments…
By Scott Lake
Jennifer on October 21st, 2009
Scott
Excellent comment Scott. We share the same sentiment that nothing can be gained from this kind of comment. Malcolm Gladwell would call this type of a person a “blocker”.
We love what you’re doing with DemoCamp. It’s a great way for new products and new product ideas to gain some ground and get some exposure. Where else we get this opportunity?
Keep up the good work, we appreciate it. One negative voice doesn’t speak for us all.
Fenix Solutions Inc.
metageoff on October 21st, 2009
Ouch. I missed that comment. Bad form!
Jordan Boesch on October 21st, 2009
Unfortunately I couldn’t make it to DemoCamp but that sounds awful! I read Rob’s post at http://deletedtheory.com/blog/index.php/2009/10/democamp-ottawa-12-oct-19-2009/ about the whole “business model” question and had high hopes that maybe JUST ONCE there wouldn’t be an ignoramous in the audience that would ask with a stupid question like that. It’s very discouraging, especially when you didn’t HAVE to show everyone what you were up to, but you decided to, cause you wanted constructive feedback from a growing community. I think it’s time to introduce the “Do not allow entrance” list at future DemoCamps :p
danceric on October 21st, 2009
Hi Scott, thanks for posting about this. I agree that DemoCamp should be as friendly as possible to not hinder creativity and not scare people off. I was there, and it seems like a lot of people (including me) were not comfortable with this comment.
igorsales on October 21st, 2009
I couldn’t go either (sold out before I signed up). That type of destructive criticism, to me at least, only demonstrates envy…
domcoballe on October 21st, 2009
While I agree that the comment was inarticulate. As a former entrepreneur and hopefully a future one again, that UI comment was very important to address for them in particular, it is the crux for the success of their app.
So was it the question or vocabulary? Because I wager that a majority of the audience thought the same thing. Sometimes entrepreneurs fall in love with a certain aspect (whether it be design or function), or they’re just focused on something else and usually their circle of advisors would not give them the ugly truth.
I thought Treena’s response was awesome, she replied with humour and an earnest wish to get more feedback good or bad. She handled herself in an excellent manner through out the demo, with all the network hiccups, etc. That poorly-phrased comment made me remark about Teena’s composure more than the commenter’s words.
I think the atmosphere should be nurturing and not sheltering. People pour time, money and sacrifice a lot to get their ideas off the ground. I think the community should be as supportive as possible and that involves giving them a honest opinion. This is a general comment and not directed at betidings.com – Let’s not placate anyone with false hope.
Anyways, long live democamp. I await the day to present my crappy venture.
squeeks on October 21st, 2009
I disagree with you.
The person stood up and asked are you going to change the UI? It currently looks like crap. He was fairly polite and direct. You NEED this type of feedback. You need someone to look at what you are doing and tell you that the idea is good but you’re doing it wrong. That, to me, is the point of things like DemoCamp. It is not to get fluffy feedback about how everything is wonderful, it is to get serious feedback about how something is obviously wrong or missing. The man who commented was not mean, Treena took it very well and we moved on.
This is not ‘negative’, this is useful feedback. Better to get people telling you this at DemoCamp then after you put even more time into it. The man asked simply, are you going to be putting more work into your UI because right now it looks like crap, Teena said yes. Simple as that.
Cheers.
luc levesque on October 21st, 2009
Alright, I’m going to add my 2 cents on this one.
I don’t think any question should be off the table… but, considering it’s DemoCamp and we’re dealing with people’s passions and dreams, rude & harshly worded criticism should be out of bounds.
I definitely agree with Scott on this one that the “crappy” comment was harsh and should have been said differently.
TP was ( and still is ) my baby. When TP was a hobby and I was just starting out that type of comment would have cut deep.
Since then, I’ve learned over the years to take harsh criticism and learn from it. With a passionate community like ours, the feedback is rarely nicely worded, but it’s always useful ( well… 99% of the time it is ).
Although it feels good to hear positive feedback about your product, I find the true gems are the comments from displeased visitors. Those are the comments you learn from, iterate on and most importantly, you build a better product from. That’s why I think all comments and questions should be acceptable.
If you get asked what your business model is, there’s no shame in answering “I don’t have one, I’m just having fun”.
My advice for DemoCamp attendees is: All questions are welcomed and encouraged, just be nice in how you ask, one day that could be you up there.
mgrouchy on October 21st, 2009
@squeeks
I don’t think anyone is arguing that democamp isn’t a place for constructive feedback. I believe the point is that you should be considerate of the people presenting when you are giving your feedback.
Saying something looks like shit and saying that the UI could use additional work are not the same thing. We are talking about common courtesy here not whether the feedback was positive or negative.
Just because Treena took it very well, doesn’t mean that was an appropriate way to give feedback during a democamp event.
Andy on October 21st, 2009
Direct feedback is awesome – how it gets packaged is the art. Personally, I would have changed my language for a forum that size and simply offered a constructive remark.
Maybe the Startup Ottawa resources section should include links to:
http://www.mannersinternational.com/etiquette_tips_business.asp
Mitch Brisebois on October 21st, 2009
Although I’ve been a “UI guy” for over 20 years, I still have a love-hate relationship with this discipline. The old adage – don’t judge a book by its cover” holds true. Too many people (particularly in this age of web 2.0 – ick) are wowed by sparkly graphics, yet don’t understand what true usability is. The individual commenting to Treena was not only rude, but also very shallow in his appreciation of design.
In fact, I thought that Betiding was very well designed from a functional standpoint. I’m sure the look will improve over time. What really counts, is whether people WANT and CAN use this product.
I applaud Treena for handling this rude wannabe designer with class. She also handled the connectivity issue with style and humour to keep the audience engaged. Kudos.
Nick on October 21st, 2009
I think it all comes down to expectations. What sets DemoCamp apart from a VC pitch is that presenters aren’t expected to have answers for all -or even most- questions about the product/business, and the product can be at any stage of development.
I think the design question was considered offside by a lot of people not because it was critical (constructive criticism should be allowed, I think), but because it implied that products presented at DemoCamp should be more fully evolved than they need to be for DemoCamp.
If the question had been something like, “Where do you think this needs to be in terms of graphic design in order to appeal to your target users?”, I don’t think anyone would have batted an eyelid, even though this is basically the same question, just asked with a different level of expectation.
Scott hardy on October 21st, 2009
This was not cool
never insult at democamp, never ever
Marquis Côté on October 21st, 2009
Being there, it certainly was unexpected. I’m guessing it was a slip of the tongue on his part. There are certainly other ways in “asking” if the UI will be revisited. DemoCamp is what we make it, I’m all for criticizing with respect. – Peace
Gisele on October 21st, 2009
I was there last night too (attending democamp for the first time) and was sat almost directly behind the guy who made this comment. I think it took alot of people by surprise even though it was delivered with a vaguely jocular tone and he tried to salve it over by adding that the app was actually a great idea. I guess [constructive] criticism is to be expected at a demo but tone and delivery is everything.
abc@abc.com on October 23rd, 2009
I was there, the comment was: “Is this the finished UI? Because it looks pretty crappy.” “pretty crappy” were the exact words. I thought it was rude and the presenter handled the comment well with a jovial “we’re just a couple of physicists” and thanked him for the feedback, that they were looking for help. The fellow followed up with an “I like the idea but the UI needs a lot of work”.
This was the first demo camp I attended. I was very disappointed by the sloooow pace. It was very late getting started, the first two demos ran very very long with very little content and problematic demos. Then the MC announced a half-hour break. My thought was, break? we just got started! After fifteen more minutes, I left. Too bad too because I was curious to see a couple of the other demos, but there was no way I was sticking around for 2 more hours of that.
Martin Dufort on October 28th, 2009
This tweet summarizes the jist of why people should present at DemoCamp even if the UI is not perfect…
http://twitter.com/ECMathews/status/5233658685
Mitch Brisebois on October 28th, 2009
Great point Martin! Got me thinking about a retro-democamp featuring LinkedIn, thefacebook, and Google… What would we offer as helpful advice seeing these screenshots??
http://sensorymetrics.com/2009/10/28/the-reid-hoffman-principle-for-startups-dont-be-embarrassed/